debate

Blog for Podcast #126 (I will no longer debate)

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Intro

This is Dreamwalker1960. As a reminder you can read the transcripts of all my podcasts at dreamwalker1960.com. You can use most podcast platforms if you wish to listen. All you need do is do a search for Dreamwalker1960.

Discussion

God impressed upon me through the Holy Spirit to write this podcast. For I am through debating people about the Word of God, the Bible.

Case-in-point:

On Facebook a woman placed her opinion that there would be no pre-tribulation rapture.

Now I must add that I understand where she is coming from. This is aimed at the multitude out there that call themselves “Christian” and are expecting to be taken away before the tribulation occurs. However, they live in and of the world. But I will address this later, so I can get back on track.

Within the thread that followed her post there were those that insisted upon all of Christendom being removed before the Tribulation. There were also those that denied any raptures at all. These two extremes are both incorrect.

I provided what I have learned from studying the Bible. Which is that there will be multiple raptures and I provided some Bible verses to back it up. This is getting to the core of why I am done debating people. For the lady that made the post challenged the verse I used as a witness for a pre-tribulation rapture stating that was solely for those that were already dead being risen. Here is that verse:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 NKJV – But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

She reprinted these verses insisting this had only to do with those that had already died, but cap-locking the key statements about the dead. Which I agree most of it does. However, what does the seventeenth verse say?

1 Thessalonians 4:17 NLT – Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.

I gave all the verses because too many take things out of context, which has led many astray. As you can see even when that is done people will see only that which they wish to see. Which is saddening.

It is examples like this which is why I will no longer enter into debates. Why?

1 Timothy 6:3-5 NKJV – If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

“Even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

For the example I started with today. What has Jesus Christ said?

Matthew 24:36-42 NKJV – “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

Consequently, Jesus Christ foretold of a rapture. Any who say there will be no rapture just called Christ a liar and in so doing denied the Son of God and have sealed their fate for themselves.

Matthew 10:33 NKJV – But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

What else did Jesus say?

Luke 21:34-36 NKJV – “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

“Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass.”

This clearly foretells of a pre-tribulation rapture. It also lays out the condition required to be counted worthy. Christ also tells us who will be worthy.

Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV – “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

What this means is that the pre-tribulation rapture will be small. No more the a few million people out of the billions which now profess to being called “Christian.”

This is the Truth within the Bible. It is the Word of God and not up for debate or speculation. Nor arguments which goes against the words spoken by Christ Himself.

This is why it is a waste of time to debate. All we need do is give the Truth through the Word of God itself. Why?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV – All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

When people chose to debate the Bible, they debate the Word of God and who is the Word of God?

John 1:1-5 NKJV – In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

“In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.”

This sentence speaks volumes, when it comes to those that chose to debate and argue against the Bible. We see that their priorities are not on that which they believe, but where their hearts are focused upon.

Matthew 6:19-24 NLT – “Don’t store up treasures here on earth, where moths eat them and rust destroys them, and where thieves break in and steal. Store your treasures in heaven, where moths and rust cannot destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be. “Your eye is like a lamp that provides light for your body. When your eye is healthy, your whole body is filled with light. But when your eye is unhealthy, your whole body is filled with darkness. And if the light you think you have is actually darkness, how deep that darkness is! “No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and be enslaved to money.

“Your eye is like a lamp that provides light for your body. When your eye is healthy, your whole body is filled with light. But when your eye is unhealthy, your whole body is filled with darkness. And if the light you think you have is actually darkness, how deep that darkness is!

Many believe they are right with the Lord God through Jesus Christ. Yet they live in darkness because their heart is not focused upon what will give glory to God, but upon what will look nice in their dinning room, or that new bedspread in the guest bedroom that by chance may be used once a decade. Or who are the opening players in some sporting event in the coming week.

Therefore, they are confounded when it comes to understanding the Bible. For they are not listening to the Holy Ghost, but to the world about them. For their hearts are focused here in this temporal realm when it should be focused upon the holy realm they desire to enter into.

They live in darkness and so are perplexed by what is written within the Bible because they do not study it for themselves, but take the word of others whom they believe is better and closer to God than they are. They delegate their responsibility to God to these other imperfect humans in place of He who died upon the cross for them.

This is why I will no longer debate with other. For they have surrendered their salvation for their own wants and desires of this temporal existence. But what is worse many don’t even realize that they have.

This is one reason I hear so many now denying that which Christ Himself described and foretold. Or say it must be this certain way and no other way can be right.

Now I know I am in no way perfect. However, when I read the Bible I do not see one rapture but many. The one promised to those that are faithful and true, the pre-tribulation rapture. The one that occurs when the Holy Spirit is remove from the face of the earth, the mid-tribulation rapture. Then once they are gone the antichrist will be fully revealed. Why? Because it is made clear that it is the Holy Ghost’s presence that is holding back the revealing of the antichrist. So, any who serve as a Temple of the Holy Spirit must be removed as well. Then there is the description of a rapture in the book of Daniel, but it takes place just before Jesus Christ returns, the pre-wrath rapture. this is in the twelve chapter of this book which was written in Hebrew. a clear sign that it was meant for the Jewish people to learn and listen too. These are three different discrptions. How can they be speaking of the same event?  Simply they can’t.

Since all scripture is inspired by God as was mentioned earlier why do so many argue and debate this? Because they are living in darkness and so are confounded to what is the Truth. That is an issue that they themselves must address with God for their own sakes. My job is to teach and evangelize. It is their job to verify what has been taught by turning to the Scriptures. Then if it stands in agreement with the Word then they are to seek to correct what is wrong in their lives as I seek to correct what is wrong in mine.

I will not debate for one other reason, and that reason is the most concerning. For time is running out and Jesus will come at any moment as a thief in the night. It could be right now, tomorrow, next week or even next year. It may even be a few years from now. For none will know the time of His return so we must be ready. How can we be ready if we debate and argue over words within the Bible. All that shows is that those that do this live in sin and in many ways do not truly seek the eternal life to come but the momentary rewards that are found in this fleeting reality that will not be remembered ever again.

God Bless

The unexpected debate: Part 3

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The last two days I have been going into a breakdown of events within the Tribulation period because of a debate I encountered last week about at what point the Rapture transpires in relation to the Tribulation. I covered the pre and the mid now I am up to the pre-wrath and in my eyes the post-tribulation Raptures. Why I am grouping them together is because an important aspect took place at the midpoint. First the 144,000 Israelites were sealed and the two witnesses began their ministry. What I will cover today will be the events that happen before the bowls of wrath which are saved as the worst part of the Tribulation and are not only terrible but if allowed for a long period would result in death to all that remain upon the surface of this planet. Now I must add here that the wording when translated from the Greek includes “ALL” that are alive, no exceptions or exclusions, except for the 144,002. That removes there being a Post-Tribulation Rapture all together. The midpoint is also shown to be the opening of the sixth seal which is accompanied by a great earthquake and ALL that remain seek to hide themselves for the sight of God. This implies that none, but the 144,002 mentioned above seek God’s grace.
The last seal is opened upon the scroll given to Jesus and as He opens it the seven trumpet judgments begin. So a quick review of what happens in the first six trumpets. Because within the seventh trumpet is not where the seven bowls of wrath occur it is here that the pre-wrath tribulation is said to take place. What I want everyone to note though will be what happens in the sixth trumpet.
First trumpet – bloody hail and fire: one-third of vegetation destroyed.
Second trumpet – fiery mountain from heaven – one-third of oceans polluted.
Third trumpet – falling star – one third of fresh water polluted.
Fourth trumpet – darkness – one third of suns, moon, and star light diminished.
Fifth trumpet – demonic invasion against all humanity – painful torment and begging for death, but none is given.
Sixth trumpet – army of 200 million – one-third of humanity killed (2.376 billion people [2,376,000,000])
Now once again I emphases that ONLY 144,002 human beings ARE protected and no others. God would not subject those that are faithful to Him to suffer in such a manner. Now those that have denied Him as the parallel which is seen in Egypt when Moses came to free Israel from the enslavement in Exodus. Those that are left are the “Egyptians,” and there is no special instructions or hint that instructions will be given to comfort or protect those that are here during these judgments. In fact the total opposite is shown to occur.
So this belief in a pre-wrath or post-tribulation Rapture have no solid Biblical ground to stand upon and in my opinion have no valid foundation. So I cannot at this time see God being so cruel to those that have accepted His Son as their Savior. So the only Rapture which is prophesied within the Bible has only one solid point to exist at. Before the Tribulation begins and makes it so since people have heard the voice of Jesus as well as the voice of Michael and heard the Trumpet to have to do more through works than through faith. For having heard Jesus makes the need for faith to be less but the need for works to be greater. So once again I am led to a pre-Tribulation Rapture.

The unexpected debate: Part 2

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Yesterday I pointed out the transition between the third chapter of Revelation and the fourth chapter. I also pointed out that after the third chapter the last book of the Bible the word “church” is not mentioned again until 22:16. This showed that the church is a non-entity within Revelation and the focus of the book is where it belongs. Not on humanity, but on Christ.
There are those that wish to state though that the true Rapture does not occur before the Tribulation begins, but during in two possible points and after. Well let’s go to the next way point that is the theoretical Rapture point. The mid-Tribulation Rapture.
Now in all honesty I do belief there is A Rapture here, but I do not see it as the Rapture the of the Church, because to me as was shown yesterday the church is not mentioned after Revelation chapter three. Now there are people that do appear before the throne of God and their number is uncountable. Before they are mentioned standing before God they are mentioned under the altar and are mentioned as “souls” so during the martyrdom period they are not resurrected till this time is complete. This is why I say there is A Rapture, but these are what is call the Tribulation Saints. Those that came to know God during this first part of the Tribulation and had to demonstrate their belief in Christ through works since they did not perform these actions before they truly knew that Christ was real.
What takes place between the end of chapter three and the ninth verse of chapter seven is a tale that needs to be seen. If not fully, at least enough to get a grasp of just how tragic this time will be. There are many opposing views as to the true order of events that transpire during the seven years of the tribulation period. The scroll with the seven seals is the main document that controls all that occurs during this seven year period.
In Matthew 24 and Revelation 6 five aspects of human interaction comes into the light. The first will be the rise of false prophets who will lead many into apostasy then the anti-Christ shall rise to power. Then there will be war followed by famine and plagues. During this time those that come to the truth of God and truly accept Jesus as their Savior will be persecuted and martyred.
The key point of change here is when the 144,000 are marked by God and taken to safety, this will occur when the anti-Christ breaks his treaty with Israel at the mid-point of the Tribulation period. The 144,000 all agree are Israelites for they are those chosen to fulfil God promise to Abraham. My personal view is that beyond the rapture of the tribulation saint, which occurs at the mid-point, that no others will accept Christ beyond this point. For not only are the 144,000 sealed here and taken into the God’s protection but this is also at which point the two witnesses are to appear and stand in judgement over all that remains upon the earth. Because for any judgement there must be two witnesses. Form all indication the time period that the 144,000 are protected and ministry of the two witnesses lasts is the same and both are the last three and a half years of the tribulation period. This is signaled when the anti-Christ takes over Jerusalem and the new temple, again at the mid-point of the tribulation.
Now many think that this is also the point of the Rapture of the church. Now as we are witnessing there is already persecution of the church but as of yet the rise of the anti-Christ has not occurred, but we are overwhelmed by false prophets. Now Christ does warn us that Christendom will face persecution, but it is not promised to all or most as would be required by those that stand for God in the first three and a half years of the Tribulation period. I just cannot see God placing that much upon those that have placed their faith and belief in Him through faith which is witnessed by their works. However, that is the standing point of those that state the Rapture is at the mid-point of the Tribulation.
Now that being said I do understand that many are facing some degree of persecution, throughout the world, and especially in the Middle East at this time. However, there needs to be a trigger that causes the persecution to escalate to such a degree that to cause global martyrdom and also this would require more works than faith by those that do profess to be Christian. Now if Jesus had made His presents more tangible then He has in the last two thousand years I do not see the requirement for more works to be needed. The only way to cause this type of requirement by true believers would be to have something grand trigger this factor beyond the rise of the anti-Christ. The only thing that fits this is a pre-Tribulation Rapture.

The unexpected debate: Part 1

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Last week it was impressed upon me to speak of the Rapture. Upon release of this article I encountered a debate I did not expect to encounter. The core of the debate? When is the Rapture per the Bible?
Is there a pre-tribulation Rapture, a mid-tribulation Rapture, a pre-wrath Rapture or a post-tribulation Rapture?
What is the saddest point about this rupture in understanding of the Bible is that people would actually wish to silence someone with a differing point of view about when this is to occur. That topic has already been addressed in a previous article. So there is no need to rehash that sad point once again. It is still something that should not transpire none the less.
Being able to understand when the Rapture is to befall is something that should not be questioned or even allowed to have doubt creep into, but by not knowing for sure when allows this to take place. What is the most important thing to note is that a no time within the book of Revelation is there any mention of what can be characterized as a Rapture. Does this mean there is not one? No. For within Revelation there are resurrections that do take place, but do they meet the criteria of a “Rapture?” Personally I do not see it.
The First three Chapters of the book of Revelation deal with John being visited about Patmos by the Glorified Jesus Christ. Here Christ instructs John to write the seven letter to the seven churches. At the beginning of chapter 4 of Revelation John is called up to heaven to witness the events that are to transpire before the beginning of the Tribulation.
Here is one element that needs to be looked at. John finishes the letters and then, being a Christian himself, or more accurately a Messianic Jew, finds himself in heaven after addressing the earthly church. This in itself could be seen as a reflection of the Rapture since it was not a true Rapture since John did not die at this time. He was merely taken into heaven to witness the events that are written within the last book of the Bible. I wish to quote from the book “Revelation” by John F. Walvoord, which is part of the John Walvoord Prophrcy Commentaries:
“The invitation to John to “come up here” is similar to that which the church anticipates at the rapture that many have connected the two expressions. It is clear from the context that this is not an explicit reference to the rapture of the church as John was not actually translated; in fact, he was still in his natural body on the island of Patmos. He was translated into scenes of heaven only temporarily. Though there is no authority for connecting the rapture with this expression, this sequence does seem to typify the order of events: that is, the church age first, then the rapture, then the church in heaven.
“Though the rapture is mentioned in letters to two of the churches (Revelation 2:25; 3:11), the rapture as a doctrine is not a part of the prophetic foreview of the book of Revelation. This is keeping with the fact that the book as a whole is not occupied primarily with God’s program for the church. Instead, the primary objective is to portray the events leading up to and climaxing in the second coming of Christ and the prophetic kingdom and the eternal state that ultimately will follow.”
The primary focus of the book of Revelation is the seconding coming of Christ. Placing the focus on Jesus and it should be. Any that place it more upon the church is not glorifying Jesus Christ and His Father are making it about themselves and so are being self-centered and self-serving not God serving. I will continue with the next paragraph form the already mentioned book:
“From a practical standpoint, however, the rapture may be viewed as having already occurred before the events of chapter 4 and following chapters of Revelation unfold. The word “church,” so prominent in chapters 2 and 3, does not occur again until 22:16, though the church is undoubtedly in view as the wife of the Lamb in Revelation 19:7. She is not a participant in the scenes of the tribulation that form the major content of Revelation.”
So when you take just the mere fact of the mention of the “church” does not occur in any form after the second and third chapters of the book of Revelation until 22:16 is significant.
How can something that is so important to the Glorified Christ that he spends time to have letters written unto them and then after that it becomes trivial? Because they are out of the picture, a non-factor. This points toward a pre-Tribulation rapture.

Confessions of a screwed up middle aged man: Censorship

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One of the marks of Christianity is the ability to be open to debate and discussion upon the scripture. It was the ability to debate that allowed Martin Luther for a time to be able to mature in his believes that led him to write his thesis and thus begin the Reformation, which was needed. Not all agree on certain facts within the Bible, which is why we have so many denominations.
When people profess to be open to the truth of the Bible, but proceed to censor countering points of view is a sign of hypocrisy and close-mindedness. This is the same symptoms that plagued the Pharisees when Christ walked amongst us. It is their unwillingness to surrender to change that led them to crucify the Son of God.
It is due to debate that my views and believes in God have grown in the correct direction. It saddens me that people would censor conflicting views and not offer a proper debate on the issues presented.

Debate Review – Prime Time

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I came away from this debate worried for this nation. I saw the corruption within the Republican Party and was worried even more then before for this nation. Now you have to understand. I now consider myself unaffiliated from any party even though I grew up and spent most of my life as a Republican. You must also understand that I will never vote for the Democratic Party since they have officially rejected God and have members in power that admit to lying and truly do not care for anyone in this nation because they wish to subjugate all within a socialist type government.
But back on topic: The Debate.
Why do I say I saw the corruption within the Republican Party? Last night due to Fox’s own polling they rigged it so Rick Perry would not be in the top ten, but instead Chris Christie would be. He was planted there as an attack dog against Rand Paul. Why? Because Mr. Paul has openly stated he will reduce the federal government. This has proven throughout the decades to be something that both parties do not wish to do. Christie should not have been on that stage, but no other candidate would attack Paul has he did several times. It is obvious that Christie will not make it to the nomination which is why he was chosen to discredit Paul as best he could.
Paul saw the writing on the wall and so interrupted when he could to make sure he would get heard. In total Rand Paul was asked four questions and only one was of any true substance the rest were aimed at tearing him down further, he was also never given any follow-up questions as most others were, but instead the moderators went to Christie to attack him instead.
Donald Trump has proven why he is running as a Republican, he isn’t one. He is a plant for the Democratic Party meant to split votes allowing the Democratic Party to win, for odds are in favor at this time that he will run against whomever the real candidate for the RNC turns out to be.
Jeb Bush is a weak candidate and it showed fully well last night. He is not his father or his brother and it showed that it was his name that got him elected governor. His high point was his defense of his stance of Common Core which he actually flip flopped on during this very debate.
Scott Walker – was he even there? Oh yea he was, but made no true impact.
Ben Carson showed his intelligence and his humor. He was one of two others on the stage that support a type of flat tax, the others being Paul and Huckabee, but I still see him as a good Vice-President.
Ted Cruz again proved himself to be charismatic and well spoken, but to me he is still too far to the right.
Mike Huckabee did well and got his points across well and his idea of a nation sales tax instead of a flat income tax outright an interesting idea, but he like most upon the stage show no signs of truly reducing the size of the federal government.
Marco Rubio presented himself well, but being married into the Bush family and wished to have a two tiered tax system and does not wish to reduce the federal government leaves me cold to his warmness.
John Kasich was the darling of the moderators. He got the most questions, his responses were as empty of content as Trump’s were. His response when asked about God left me knowing that he is a paper Christian and so I will not support him in any way shape or form.
Of the five that were asked about God only Dr. Carson came out on top with Cruz a very close second. Walker and Rubio answered very well also, but as I just stated above Mr. Kasich showed me that he just lips the words to get votes. I wish they would have asked the question to all ten.
The questions asked in this debate were much better than in the first one, but appears they were given to people upon how they scored in the polls or that they were the governor of the state that hosted the debate. Again I was disappointed in the overall presentation given by Fox News.

Debate review the bottom 7

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This is not going to be an in-depth review but a quick personal over view of what I heard.

First and foremost – Lindsey Graham is a warmonger all his responds turned into to going to war in the Middle East. I guess someone made him angry when he was over there cause that is all he can fixate upon.

Bobby Jindal – was all over the place, going with what was popular in the media at this particular moment… Already have a president in office that does that now.

George Pataki and Jim Gilmore – old school Republicans — had enough of that already … we need term limits even on the ability to offer to run for president.

Carly Fiorina — Rick Perry basically said it himself she is perfect for Secretary of State, nuff said.

Rick Perry deserves some more attention, but I need more details. He was vague in several answers but at least he stood up to Obama on the boarder issue, but that is just not enough… need more before I will say.

Biggest Disappointment of this debate? Rick Santorum, I heard talking points and no real answers, and no true reflection of his values he has stated he has. Sorry lost my vote for sure.

As for the moderation… I heard a lot of favoritism and no really hard hitting questions except for a few, but those few not all were allowed to answer on… poor time management Fox News tisk tisk tisk.